Is name=Automat na jizdenky MHD a good tagging?

There is group of 51 vending machines( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV <http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV> ) tagged * amenity=vending_machine * name=Automat na jizdenky MHD * operator=DPMB * payment:coins=yes * vending=public_transport_tickets Is it a good idea to use name tag in this way? It seems to me that it is similar to name=Restaurant amenity=restaurant and that moving this to description tag would be preferable.

There is group of 51 vending machines( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV <http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV> ) tagged * amenity=vending_machine * name=Automat na jizdenky MHD * operator=DPMB * payment:coins=yes * vending=public_transport_tickets Is it a good idea to use name tag in this way? It seems to me that it is similar to name=Restaurant amenity=restaurant and that moving this to description tag would be preferable.

There is a group of 51 vending machines( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV <http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV> ) tagged * amenity=vending_machine * name=Automat na jizdenky MHD * operator=DPMB * payment:coins=yes * vending=public_transport_tickets Is it a good idea to use name tag in this way? It seems to me that it is similar to name=Restaurant amenity=restaurant and that moving this to description tag would be preferable.

There is a group of 51 vending machines( http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV <http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/JjV> ) tagged * amenity=vending_machine * name=Automat na jizdenky MHD * operator=DPMB * payment:coins=yes * vending=public_transport_tickets Is it a good idea to use name tag in this way? It seems to me that it is similar to name=Restaurant amenity=restaurant and that moving this to description tag would be preferable.

Technicaly public_transport_tickets can be for any public transport. Rails, boats, trams... so the name *can* specify this. In theory this can be already specified by operator... In my opinion the name does not make a harm. And taginfo say that 12.64% of vending=public_transport_tickets use the name as well. So it is not so uncommon. Miroslav

Dne 24. 05. 19 v 21:54 Mateusz Konieczny napsal(a):

Technicaly public_transport_tickets can be for any public transport. Rails, boats, trams... so the name *can* specify this. In theory this can be already specified by operator... In my opinion the name does not make a harm. And taginfo say that 12.64% of vending=public_transport_tickets use the name as well. So it is not so uncommon. Miroslav

Ahoj

Yes, it can be justified, when it clarifies the context (MHD is only used for the local public transport, not a long-distance one), but it is hardly a *name*... I agree with Mateusz, that this would serve its purpose well enough in description. H.

Ahoj On Fri, 24 May 2019 at 23:25, Miroslav Suchý <miroslav na suchy.cz> wrote:

Yes, it can be justified, when it clarifies the context (MHD is only used for the local public transport, not a long-distance one), but it is hardly a *name*... I agree with Mateusz, that this would serve its purpose well enough in description. H.

I can think of a couple of reasons why not to do it: 1) The "name" is quite long and in some renderers it takes up space that could otherwise be used for more useful names. It's even wrapped to two lines in OsmAnd, for instance. Yes, I know, tagging for the renderer etc., but I believe that considering the tagging is inherently wrong (it's a description, not a name), even this should be taken into account. 2) More importantly, I believe tagging like this only fuels the notion that seems to be pretty widespread with OSM beginners, namely that a) anything and everything can/should have a name, and b) names and descriptions are the same thing.  Granted, this isn't much of an issue in Czechia, which is both well mapped (so there isn't much opportunity to add new stuff) and well maintained (so the erroneous edits don't hold for too long), but some of the less developed parts of the OSM world are littered with "names" such as "school", "roundabout", "grocery store", "forest path" and similar. IMHO we shouldn't be setting an example like this if we can help it. If it has to be specified what kind of tickets the machine sells and the operator=* tag isn't enough for some reason, we could specify a public transport network with the same network=* tag that's used with public transport route relations. If, somehow, even that weren't enough (although I can't think of a real world scenario like that), the vending machine node could be made a member of a specific route or maybe public_transport=stop_area relation. Furthermore, the "MHD" in name=* (or description=* for that matter) won't mean much to non-Czech speakers anyway.

On 24/05/2019 23:25, Miroslav Suchý wrote:

I can think of a couple of reasons why not to do it: 1) The "name" is quite long and in some renderers it takes up space that could otherwise be used for more useful names. It's even wrapped to two lines in OsmAnd, for instance. Yes, I know, tagging for the renderer etc., but I believe that considering the tagging is inherently wrong (it's a description, not a name), even this should be taken into account. 2) More importantly, I believe tagging like this only fuels the notion that seems to be pretty widespread with OSM beginners, namely that a) anything and everything can/should have a name, and b) names and descriptions are the same thing.  Granted, this isn't much of an issue in Czechia, which is both well mapped (so there isn't much opportunity to add new stuff) and well maintained (so the erroneous edits don't hold for too long), but some of the less developed parts of the OSM world are littered with "names" such as "school", "roundabout", "grocery store", "forest path" and similar. IMHO we shouldn't be setting an example like this if we can help it. If it has to be specified what kind of tickets the machine sells and the operator=* tag isn't enough for some reason, we could specify a public transport network with the same network=* tag that's used with public transport route relations. If, somehow, even that weren't enough (although I can't think of a real world scenario like that), the vending machine node could be made a member of a specific route or maybe public_transport=stop_area relation. Furthermore, the "MHD" in name=* (or description=* for that matter) won't mean much to non-Czech speakers anyway. -- Michal Fabík

I would completely remove the name, not move it to a the description. There is a correct operator set, and the name or description doesn't really add anything new. Additionally - this seems to be the typical "new user and iD" goof, where the new mapper is adding the operator, but iD implies it needs the name by putting it prominently up. Just look at the history where it was added. 25. května 2019 9:55:07 SELČ, "Michal Fabík" <michal.fabik na gmail.com> napsal:

I would completely remove the name, not move it to a the description. There is a correct operator set, and the name or description doesn't really add anything new. Additionally - this seems to be the typical "new user and iD" goof, where the new mapper is adding the operator, but iD implies it needs the name by putting it prominently up. Just look at the history where it was added. 25. května 2019 9:55:07 SELČ, "Michal Fabík" <michal.fabik na gmail.com> napsal: